(*) I never did this.

And that’s not out of fear for my life (although a YouTube video of me doing just that would invite a few death threats, I’m sure).

It’s out of respect for, and tolerance of, what it means to other people (like Veterans who fought under the flag, for instance).

One distinction: the Pope isn’t self-appointed. Another – most Catholics accept that they should obey the Pope as much as they can (even the gay or contracepting ones).

Nowhere is it written that they must follow Bill Donahue. So who cares whether or not this guy condems the wacko death threats? (I doubt the wackos making the threats are his, or anybody’s “followers”).

Now if the Pope issued a fatwa against the pranksters, that would be a different matter and worth getting annoyed about.

What the prankster did wasn’t just poking fun at “authority”, it was deeply offensive to many good Catholics who take communion every Sunday, as was PZ Meyers’ suggestion to commit the same hate-crime. Just because some anonymous wackos (who may not even be Catholics) made death threats doesn’t change the nature of the offense, or justify its repetition.

And Jeff “I think all religions are open for mockery,…” – I used to think that way too, “Hey as long as I make fun of every religion equally including my own, that’s OK.” But take one of your most dearly held beliefs and imagine someone pissing all over it – not so funny. Freedom of speech is sacred, but it’s better to “do unto others as you _would have them_ do unto you”, regardless of how they actually do treat you.

And what about Sally Quinn (a non Catholic) who nonetheless took communion at Russert’s funeral? I’m a long-time lapsed Catholic and even I have enough respect for what they believe to find that wrong. How come Bill Donahue hasn’t called for a campaign against her?

Jeff’s main point remains: The people in authority – self granted and otherwise – in the Catholic church are no different from people in authority anywhere. Left to their own devices, they’ll try to crush anyone who challenges them.

I cheerfully ran the Mohammed cartoons back during that kerfuffle; I think all religions are open for mockery, including atheism (which is a faith, no matter how strenuously atheists argue otherwise). Indeed, I poke fun at my own religion in this very post.

> people of the Catholic faith believe P.Z. is going to be
> tortured eternally by a just and loving God, so I’m not sure
> who’s showing less respect to whom.

I doubt if that’s true – many would actually pray for him, and probably predict some time in Purgatory, reduced if he repents here on Earth. And you’re mixing “The Church” with “people of the Catholic faith” very freely in this post. There is a difference. Note “The Church” may have acted to cover up scandals but that doesn’t mean that “people of the Catholic faith” were willing accomplices.

> I find it interesting that a Church that covered up thousands > of cases of sexual abuse is now horribly concerned at what
> could befall what can charitably be called a very tiny part of
> the Body of Christ, or for those of us who are non-Catholic, a > cracker.

Minor quibble – Catholics believe that even a piece of Eucharist contains the whole Body of Christ, not just parts. (Which leads to interesting discussion about what happens to the tiny particles that fly off when it’s broken).

But again you conflate the “bad actions of the Church” to “offended Faithful”. There’s no irony there. Most devout Catholics would be offended by the desecration of the Eucharist that occurred. To outsiders it’s “just a cracker” but to them it’s more than that, and that core belief (transubstantiation) has invited persecution from the Romans onwards. (Just not so much these days).

Just because some priests have done bad stuff, and the Church has done some reprehensible things in the name of Catholicism, doesn’t mean that truly faithful Catholics should be more “tolerant” for something like this.

But I’ll bet that most of them are –
only a few wrong-headed extremists would be so offended as to make death threats, and even fewer would carry them out. I would hope that more “official” Catholic sources would express their offense while still asking for forgiveness.

Whatever you think of the Church or Catholic believers, this was a hate crime by any definition.

And honestly the fact that people like Donohue and those who support him not only miss this key fact, while playing the “endangered victim” no less, is the worst part in this whole affair.

I say it puts into question their intelligence and capability of ethical behavior but then, I’d probably be accused of committing an anti-religion hate crime..