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Liveblogging the Democratic Debate
By Jeff Fecke | January 21, 2008
6:26 Are you there, God? It’s me, Jeff. I’m not sure how this afterlife thing works, but if there is reincarnation, can you please arrange for Lou Dobbs to come back as a poor migrant worker who’s forced to cross the border illegally in order to feed his children? And if there isn’t reincarnation, can you just find it in your heart to somehow get Lou Dobbs to shut up? (If you don’t exist, kindly disregard this request.)
6:33 Lou Dobbs hates Mexicans enough to take on the ACLU and the NRA! Kill me now. All right, I’m turning off the teevee until the top of the hour. Or at least Lou Dobbs. Forever.
6:50 Okay, it’s not enough that Steven A. Smith is on ESPN 23-1/2 hours a day? Now MSNBC has him as a political commentator? Smith can’t comment on football accurately, how can he possibly be a legitimate political commentator? For the love of God, CNN was smart enough to put Pam Spaulding on this morning; you can’t possibly argue that Smith is more deserving of a prime spot on “Hardball” than her. Or any of the many hundreds of qualified African American bloggers, columnists, radio hosts, television hosts, or semaphore signalers not named Steven A. Smith.
Smith is more deserving, of course, than Pat Buchanan and Chris Matthews, the other guys on MSNBC right now. When the history of the Decline and Fall of the American Empire is written, it will begin with tapes of “Hardball.”
6:58 In fairness to Smith, he’s right on Giuliani. President 9/11 would be a disaster for the union.
7:00 Pretty Beard moderating, telling us that South Carolina is all about African American voters, and how they vote. For those of you watching at home, remember, Caucasian voters and their votes need not be analyzed, because, y’know, white men deserve the vote, unlike…others.
7:02 Obama and Clinton both get the biggest applause from the crowd. Oddly, Clinton’s mike is hot, but she greets both of her opponents pleasantly and by their first name.
And…we’re introducing people on stage who I’m sure have done more things for the country than Suzanne Malveaux, but instead, we’re listening to her yammer on.
7:04 This is really a poorly-organized debate thus far. I’m really not sure why; it’s not like CNN hasn’t run a debate before.
7:08 First question: the economy sucks! How much money are you gonna give us?
Hillary: $650, how ’bout that? — but things are bad, and the Democrats are going to do a good job, and Martin Luther King, Jr. Hillary blows away the time limit by about five minutes.
Barack: March on Washington was for jobs, not just for justice, Bush skews things to the rich, the war sucks, we aren’t investing in our schools, we need a stimulus to the economy, Clinton’s a johnny-come-lately to tax rebates, we should give money to seniors.
Edwards: A few seconds for me to pander to African American voters? Thanks. The rich are getting richer, the poor poorer, and we should make systemic changes.
Blitzer interrupts: But what about the short-term stimulus package? Isn’t that more important than long-term systemic fixes that alleviate these problems?
Edwards: No. We need to actually create jobs long-term. A stimulus is fine, but we need to focus on jobs first, and I oppose free trade.
Blitzer incorrectly sums up: So you don’t want to fix anything now?
Edwards: You’re an idiot.
Obama: No he isn’t. We need an immediate stimulus package to avoid a severe recession. NAFTA was a mistake, and Hillary supported it, neener-neener! But the Peru trade deal was all good, because I supported it. And Edwards loves China! Neener-neener!
Clinton: I hope we can use the money in the stimulus package to spend money, but because it’s a crisis now, let’s move quickly and heedlessly. Bush is not offering enough, and the GOPers are going to try to make tax cuts for the rich permanent. We need both a short-term stimulus and long-term thinking.
Edwards: My long-term stimulus would work well in the short-term. My dad worked in the mills for eleventy-three years. And why do you trust George W. Bush on Peru, Barack? Huh? Huh?
Obama: In a year, I’ll be enforcing our trade agreements. (Great line.) John, you talk pretty, and you understand being poor, but so do I, because I worked with the poor in Chicago. (This takes much more than the 10 seconds Blitzer yielded him.)
7:22 Malveaux: Clinton would say that you spend like a drunken sailor, Obama, but that would make drunken sailors look bad, wouldn’t it?
Obama: Clinton was wrong, and we need to start working for change. Also, he’s saying, “When Sen. Clinton or Pres. Clinton say….” in this, nice shot at the Big Dog. Obama’s having a good debate so far.
Clinton: I agree wholeheartedly, except for the part where you said I was wrong, the part where you said you were right, and the part where you referenced my husband. Oh, also, he’s a Republican in Democrat’s clothing. And he’s lying about how he’s gonna pay for stuff. Just sayin’. Also, my campaign was criticizing you about the war for supporting President Bush on the war, and voting the same way I did on the war, which is bad when it’s you.
Obama: Hillary, you’re wrong –
Clinton: I’m going to interrupt!
Obama: I said Reagan was transformative because he got Democrats to back him. And I opposed his policies, because I was working on the streets — at the same time you were a corporate lawyer for Wal-Mart.
(Oh, snap! It’s on, now!)
Also, you praised Reagan in Brokaw’s book, as did your husband!
Edwards: I would like to talk at some point.
Blitzer: I’m sorry, there isn’t time.
Clinton: You said Republicans had ideas.
Obama: Didn’t say they were good ideas.
Clinton: By the way, last I checked, you were an attorney for a slum lord. Beyatch.
Edwards: Can I remind you that I’m running for president? And you invited me to be here to talk. So, can we stop squabbling? This is not about us personally. This is about what we’re going to do for our country. (Great comeback.) I’ve been explicit about how I’ve paid for things. And Clinton has not proposed a way to keep social security funded, while Obama and I have, so Hillary shouldn’t be casting stones while in glass houses, and can I please finish? For the love of FSM, you let those two yammer on. Hillary needs to be honest.
7:33 Johns: Mortgages appear to be racially targeted, with African Americans getting the worst mortgages. Is this racial?
Edwards: Duh. Discrimination and the historical legacy of slavery and Jim Crow have left us with more African Americans in vulnerable positions where they’re targeted by payday lenders and predatory mortgage lenders. We’ve got to stop the predators and help the poor to save.
Blitzer: Alan Greenspan says helping average people with their mortgages is bad for the rich. Isn’t that bad?
Clinton: Not so much. I was trying to argue this in March, and Greenspan and his acolytes were saying this wouldn’t be that bad in the end. Big banks are getting money from Abu Dhabi for their poor lending, while the poor are losing their homes.
Obama: We need to make sure we’re helping actual homeowners, not speculators. But we have a habit in this country of preying on the poor. I support an end to predatory lending. And we need to give the poor access to financing, and the poor are borrowing like crazy because the banks rule Washington, cf. the bankruptcy bill, which Clinton supported.
Blitzer: Did you work for a slum lord?
Obama: I billed 5 hours of work while at a firm that had him as a client, so if that’s important to you, wev. We need honesty in campaigns.
Clinton: I regret voting for the bankruptcy bill, and I voted against the 2005 version that ultimately passed. And Obama voted to allow 30%+ interest on credit cards, and Obama’s also a pawn of the health care firms, and I’m used to people taking hard shots at me, unlike Sen. Glass Jaw to my left.
Obama: I voted for the amendment because I thought that limit was too high.
Edwards: You’re kidding me? Now there’s no limit!
Obama: I didn’t say it was a good answer. But I opposed the bill.
Clinton: You never take responsibility for any vote, ever. Let me talk about the Illinois “present” votes for a moment. Yes, this has been thoroughly debunked elsewhere. But I won’t mention that.
Obama: One of those bills I voted “present” on was one I sponsored. I voted 4,000 times in the legislature, but if you want to take one vote out of context, fine. I don’t think it’s right that people just say anything to get elected. I like policy debates, I don’t like picayune, stupid, inaccurate criticism.
Edwards: So why did you vote present?
Obama: In Illinois, that’s customary on bills you support but have some minor problems with.
Edwards: Fine and dandy, but you’ve done the same thing to Hillary and I that you say we’re doing to you, and may I mention subtly that you failed to vote on some issues in the Senate?
Obama: Look, I worked to end the death penalty in Illinois, I worked to improve the lot of juvenile offenders, I opposed the war — none of those were politically expedient choices.
7:49 Malveaux: You called attention to AIDS last year, and that’s a pretty random, tangental transition to a health care question.
Clinton: My health care plan will cover everyone, unlike certain other candidates (*cough* Obama *cough*). We need a way to manage chronic diseases and bargain prices down.
Johns: Your plan, does it cover illegal immigrants?
Obama: No, it doesn’t, because we’ve got limited resources. We do have an obligation to make sure children are covered, but there’s only so much money to go around. We’ve got to take responsibility for our system and be honest.
Blitzer: How ’bout you, Edwards, you want to give those eeeevul illegals money?
Edwards: None of ours do, but I think that if we actually reform immigration, then maybe we could look at it. But let’s be straightforwards, my health care plan is universal, as is Clinton’s. Obama’s is not. By the way, Obama likes money from drug companies and Clinton likes money from insurance companies.
Obama: I don’t take PAC money, and while drug company employees may have given me money, that’s not like lobbyists throwing money at me. Clinton and Edwards support health insurance mandates, I do not. At least Edwards is honest that it may require taxes, Clinton won’t even say that. I don’t want to force people to get insurance, but I do want to make sure it’s affordable. You two have hardship exemptions, and don’t count them.
Clinton & Edwards: But we cover them.
Obama: No, you don’t.
Clinton & Edwards: Yes we do.
Edwards: This is a fair question, but I believe that everyone should have health care.
Clinton: If you don’t start out trying to get universal health care, we’ll never get there. (This is a very, very good point: if you don’t start at 100%, it’s easy to get bargained down to 12%.) This is a core Democratic principle, and I’ll go to the mat for it, and “I’m not going to start out leaving 15 million people out of health care.” Also, Obama has walked away from single-payer and universal health care. By the way, let me mention the present votes again. (This is the best Clinton’s been in the debate.)
Obama: If we mandate health care, poor people will end up struggling because they can’t afford health care — cf. Massachusetts. I’m going to subsidize health care so the people that want health care can get it, and my support of single-payer was a hypothetical, “If we were starting from scratch” argument. Stop lying about my record.
8:02 Johns: Isn’t everything wonderful and sparkly ponies in Iraq thanks to St. Petraeus?
Clinton: I want to bring our troops home, because there’s no military solution in Iraq, and we can’t leave our troops in harm’s way. The surge pacified parts of Iraq because hey, we sent more troops there and yeah, that has an effect. But there hasn’t been any real political progress, and what political gains we’ve seen in Iraq have come because they understand that they’ve only got a year of Bush left. I’m not saying bring all troops home immediately, you’ve got to be smart, but we need to start wrapping it up.
Blitzer: But isn’t John McCain totally right about everything, ever? Aren’t you just advocating surrender?
Edwards: The reason for the surge was to create room for political progress, and criminy, even Bush knows that there has to be political progress. And there hasn’t been any meaningful movement on that front. All of us have said we’ll end the war, but I want to hear how aggressive my opponents will be. I say within a year of taking office, all combat troops are home. Barack? Hillary?
Obama: I want to be careful getting out, I want all combat troops out as quickly as we can, safely. Target two brigades a month, get our troops out some time in 2009. We are spending $9-10 billion a month in Iraq, and when John McCain says we’ll be there for a century…that’s insane. We’ll have spent $2 trillion on the war by the time it ends, and that’s a lot of money. Also, al Qaeda is stronger than it’s been at any time since 2001. We need to deal with future threats, and we can’t do so as long as we’re stuck in Iraq.
Clinton: I will move “as quickly as possible,” and would target one year, but we don’t know what Bush is trying to negotiate with Iraq, but it probably involves permanent bases and long-term commitments, and we need to do something to cut this off.
Blitzer: We’re going to break, and when we come back, the set will be different, and we’ll be in the lightning round, where the dollars are double — but so is the danger!
Game reset: Clinton and Obama are throwing wild haymakers at each other, and I’m still trying to figure out who’s got the best of it. Right now, I kinda think Clinton has, but both have been harsh. Edwards, meanwhile, seems to have abandoned his strategy of defending Obama for one of defending Clinton. I don’t know what that means.
Blitzer: Okay, we ran out to IKEA and got some new red chairs from the Bjørgenflugen collection, so we’re ready for anything now! Barack Obama, Charlie Rangel says African American people should vote on their interests, not race. What say you?
Obama: African Americans should vote their interests, not race; I’m sure Hillary feels women should vote their interests, not gender; I’m sure John Edwards thinks white males should vote their interests, not race or gender. (Very good answer.)
Malveaux: Should the prospect of the first African American president be a factor in voting?
Edwards: I’m not touching that with a ten-foot pole. Let me just say that I’ve made fighting for the poor and disadvantaged a core principle of my campaign, and African Americans are disproportionately poor and disadvantaged, and that’s central to my beliefs.
Clinton: I respect Edwards’ fight for the poor, and that’s why right out of law school I worked for the Children’s Defense Fund. This for me is a mission. We need a reality check, though, because we need to figure out how best to end poverty. The average African American family lost money over the past seven years, while in the 1990s, their incomes went up. I’m not going to mention the president who was president then, but let’s just say I know him. In the Biblical sense.
Obama: I’ve put forth my anti-poverty plans, and I’ll share my plans with you, if you want to read it.
Edwards: White papers are a good cure for insomnia.
Obama: Ain’t it the truth. I was a community organizer, and I did so to help the poor, so I’ve walked the talk too.
(Interjection: I think this is a silly argument. Clinton, Obama, and Edwards have their differences, but all of them would be infinitely better for the poor than any of the GOP.)
Obama: Also, the media keeps yammering on about race. “Obviously, in the race where you’ve got an African American, and a woman, and…John….” (great line). But I think we need to move beyond race. All of us will fight for the disadvantaged and we shouldn’t expect our party’s going to split on racial lines.
Edwards: I’ve been actively involved in the fight against poverty, even before I was a politician. Also, I’m fighting with Bill O’Reilly, so hey, liberal-cred. I’ve met people who can’t pay both their heating bills and their rent. This is ridiculous. We’re better than this.
Johns: Barack, you say the media is too preoccupied with race, so let me bring up Toni Morrison’s statement that Clinton is the “first black president.” Was he?
Obama: Uh…I think Bill Clinton had “an enormous affinity with the African American community,” and it’s well-earned. I’m inspired by men and women who grew up in the South during Jim Crow and managed to transcend that background. People can change, and each generation creates a different and better world. Clinton embodies that. I’d have to take a look at whether Bill can dance before I can say he’s a brother, though.
Clinton: That can be arranged. This campaign is an incredible thing. We have diversity in this race, and that’s consonant with the dream of King. As Frederick Douglass said, “Right has no sex, and Truth has no color.” It’s a hard-fought campaign, but we fight because this is an important job, one worth the fight. We know Bush has screwed things up royally, and we’re passionate about fixing things, but I’m privileged to be part of this group.
Obama: I’m glad I’m getting attacked, it shows I’m doing well. Too much civility would be bad, it wouldn’t be competitive. Also, when I say that the focus should not be on Hillary or me about race, that doesn’t mean race is magically not a real problem. It is. I’ll work for racial justice, but I expect Hillary and John would, too. After all, racial justice is good for America.
Clinton: We still have problems of gender equality, too, and we need to address all of this. (Allow me to add: and we need to address LGBT issues too.) We’re passionate about this, because each of us have seen these problems. We’re talking about this. The GOP is not. They don’t give a damn about race or gender problems. (That may be my phrasing, but it’s true.)
Edwards: Growing up in the segregated south, I saw how bad racism was. We don’t talk about everything that we should talk about either — we need to show that we really believe everyone is equal regardless of race, creed, color, or class. We need to get housing policy in order, and to help everyone.
Malveaux: Hillary, Bill just won’t shut up, will he?
Clinton: He feels strongly about the country, and he’s been a strong advocate for me, and I appreciate that. (He also owes me. Big time.) But this race is about the three people on stage, not our spouses. And I can take the biggest shots from the Republicans and keep standing. And have I mentioned my 35 years of experience? Yes? Well, let me mention it again.
Obama: All of us have spouses who are smart and forceful, and I’d expect Bill would campaign for you. I’ve been troubled by his attacks on my record, but that’s how it goes in politics, I suppose. As for challenging the GOP, I think it’s time for us to redraw the political map. We need to push for a working majority of the American people, or we’re not going to get anywhere with our bold plans, and unless we reach out to independents and Republicans, we’re not going to be able to.
Edwards: People should remember they’re voting for the person who’s going to go toe-to-toe with John McCain. I think that’s me. But we can’t concede the south to the GOP. Have I mentioned I’m from the south? I am. Not from Chicago or Los Angeles or New York or those…northern cities. Also, you know, it’s a little weird getting attention for my whiteness and maleness, y’know?
Obama: Getting attention for your race? Yeah, I know.
Edwards: Anyhoo, I poll well, so vote for me.
Blitzer: And now, a word from our sponsors.
Obama: I beat John McCain like a rented mule!
Clinton: Hey, the GOP’s gonna take their shots, and I can take ‘em. I can stand up to lobbyists, and I can take the shots.
Edwards: When someone gives you millions of dollars, they expect something.
Clinton: The trial lawyers give you money.
Edwards: Yeah, and it’s because I oppose tort reform. You’re getting money from the health care industry.
Clinton: I support public financing for elections, but hey, Barack has lobbyists working for him, Edwards has lobbyists working for him. Nobody’s hands are clean.
Obama: You’re right, nobody’s hands are clean, but I try to keep mine cleaner than yours. You say you’ll be tough if elected, and maybe you will; I’ll change from the GOP line.
Edwards: We can’t just have a short-term view of foreign policy.
Blitzer: Last question: if Dr. King was alive today, why would he endorse you? Let’s start with the white guy.
Edwards: Because I’m working to help the poor.
Obama: I don’t think Dr. King would endorse any of us. He’d want us held accountable to the American people. Change doesn’t happen from the top down, it happens from the bottom up. It was men and women who forced elected officials to be accountable.
Clinton: What he said.
Blitzer: And that’s it! We’ll take a short break, and be right back with furious spinning!
Final thoughts: I don’t know who won this won. Edwards, probably, stayed above the fray the best, but Obama and Clinton took some hard, good shots at each other, and they needed to. The first part of the debate was the more interesting, and I think it was a good one for everyone on the stage. Obama needed to show he was a fighter, he did. Clinton needed to knock Obama off his “nice guy” pedestal, she did. Edwards needed to reassert himself…he didn’t. I’d give this to Clinton on points, but a different judge could justifiably have scored it for Obama. Edwards had nice moments, but he disappeared for long stretches in the debate, which was sadly emblematic of the campaign.
Topics: Barack Obama, Election 2008, Hillary Rodham Clinton, John Edwards | 10 Comments »
January 21st, 2008 at 7:49 pm
Damn Jeff! You picked a good one to live-blog!!
January 21st, 2008 at 8:21 pm
[...] Blog of the Moderate Left [...]
January 21st, 2008 at 8:43 pm
Jeff, I just wanted to thank you for liveblogging the debate. As an American expat in Australia, I have very little access to American TV (no cable!), so this is really a great thing to have. You make me feel like I’ve really learned something today.
Anyhow, thanks.
January 21st, 2008 at 8:52 pm
It’s hard to say who is winning this one. They are all performing really strongly tonight. There is so much more here than at the Repub debates. I thought Obama had a bad debate when they were standing up, but he has had some incredible moments since they sat down, and I think he has gotten himself back to even with Hillary and John E. (who isn’t saying much, but is making it count when he does talk tonight)
January 21st, 2008 at 11:04 pm
[...] was another debate. Brave Shaker Jeff live-blogged it. Hooray for his moderation. I would scream what the fuck is wrong with these candidates! Where is [...]
January 22nd, 2008 at 1:27 am
I have NEVER BEFORE rerad a live-blogging of a debate, and I have to say, THIS is the way I will “watch” them in the future!
SO INFORMATIVE< and SO FUNNY!!!!
Y*O*U R*U*L*E
!!!!!! I L*O*V*E*D* THIS
January 22nd, 2008 at 6:17 am
Thanks for saving me the time of watching it on my DVR. So much more entertaining, too.
January 22nd, 2008 at 6:52 am
that was the best liveblogging ever in the history of the world. i read this after the fact, but will make sure to tune in, -live- next time for future debates. thanks!
January 22nd, 2008 at 7:39 am
[...] is the best liveblogging account…who needs to watch the debates, just read the next morning! Liveblogging the Democratic Debate via Blog of the Moderate Left 6:26 Are you there, God? It’s me, Jeff. I’m not sure how this [...]
January 22nd, 2008 at 10:23 am
I just wanted to say thanks for the following line.
“Obama: I beat John McCain like a rented mule!”
I snorted celery into my nasal cavity.